美中全球议题对话项目

Aanika Veedon: From wherever you're listening in, welcome. My name is Annika Veedon, and I'm a senior in Georgetown University's Walsh School of Foreign Service (SFS) studying international politics.

Luke Hughes: And my name is Luke Hughes, I'm a junior in the SFS studying science, technology and international affairs.

Aanika Veedon: The two of us are the co-hosts of the Georgetown U.S.-China Student Dialogue Podcast, a student-run podcast through the Georgetown Initiative for U.S.-China Dialogue on Global Issues.

Luke Hughes: After visiting Beijing and Hong Kong this past May with the rest of the spring 2025 cohort, Annika and I felt compelled to continue the trans-Pacific dialogue we had the privilege of engaging in. We hope this podcast further demonstrates the importance of student voices in U.S.-China relations. We hope you enjoy.

Aanika Veedon: Want to go ahead and start us off. You can give us a quick introduction, maybe your name, your school, what you're studying, or anything else that you want to share.

Lawrence Ze: Okay, good morning and good evening. This is Lawrence. I'm actually a Tsinghua [University] alumni, and I just kind of [got] sent a rejection letter to my Ph.D. program. Now I'm functioning as an intern in venture capital, because I'm now mainly focused on like investing in AI [artificial intelligence] startups, whether it's hardware or software, but I'm deeply interested in IR [international relations]. You know, one of the reasons is that, one of the reasons is that I studied Russian and French during my undergrad, and did a bit of research on that.

So, I'm very glad to talk with Georgetown people, because that's, you know, where the diplomats from the U.S. side were born, and, you know, trained. So very happy to talk with you and look forward to our further communication.

Luke Hughes: Wow, wow. I'm curious. Lawrence, did you see a lot of overlap with your Russian and French studies? Or, how did—how did you come up with that? How did you choose those two subjects?

Lawrence Ze: No, honestly, first, Russian was my first choice. That was my major. At that time, I was super dumb. I didn't exactly know, you know, about what the world is like, or whatever, but you know, I speak English, so I was like, and I love learning international languages. So it was a very realistic choice, you know, because I didn't do so well in my entrance examination, but luckily, I still got into a prestigious school—it's called Harbin Institute of Technology. It's in Harbin, very close to Russia.

So combining all this, I was like, “Okay, I don't mind starting a new language. So Russian, here it is.” But at a first beginning, it was, wow, a disaster for me, because I know, like a lot of people at Georgetown, you guys also study Russian. The grammatical system and also the pronunciation system is so drastically different from the one in English. It's a very, you know, very systematic language, because when you start a sentence, a lot of things have to been thought through, even before you open your mouth. That's for one as a language, the Russian as a language itself.

But secondly, I think we all know there is an unusual, at least, relationship between Russia and China. And you know, even the memory, especially, there’s like a special memory for the generation of my grandpas and grandmas. You know, their first foreign language is Russian, as it was at the time for a lot of people. So, you know, that's a precious opportunity for me to dive into that period of history, and, you know, connect with, you know, the generation for my grandpas and grandmas.

So, you know, it's an international connection, but also a very local connection, you know, because when I was—my freshman year, my grandpa would stretch out his Russian, you know. I'm not sure about his, you know, Russian level, but, you know, I can understand him. But, you know, that's bonding time, you know, between like, grandson and grandpa, that's super interesting.

At the same time, speaking when it comes to French, is just like, after I finished my freshman year, I was like, okay, I had, you know, at the first beginning, bad, but then great experience of acquiring foreign languages. So I was like, why not? We just, you know, get a new one.

And another secret reason that I chose French, and during that summer is just, you know, I wanted to make the best out of my summer vacation. So I especially chose French classes in the morning, so I would have a legitimate reason to, you know, wake myself up in the morning. And at the same time, why French? It’s just, you know, I went to a STEM school, and a lot of people around me, you know, they study mechanics or engineering, that kind of stuff. So they kind of naturally studied German. And I was like, okay, a lot of people are studying German. I better do something very different, you know. So, French—that's a true story.

Aanika Veedon: Once you can speak Russian, I feel like you can learn any language.

Lawrence Ze: Okay, thank you. But I think you know some like languages from Middle Asia, that would not be a huge problem for me. And honestly, German shares a lot of, like, similarities grammatically with Russian, but I'm not sure you know, because there are different language systems. For one, like, I tried Japanese; it's super hard. And Arabic, you know, and other languages from Northern Europe. I don't know much about them, but I've heard, you know, they're very difficult and stuff like that.

Luke Hughes: I haven't tried my hand at any of those languages. Actually, my family and I, we visited Moscow and St. Petersburg a few years ago, and I tried to learn some Russian before, and I gave up after two days. I tried and just with a different alphabet, I couldn't pronounce some of the words. We were able to get around Russia a little bit, but that was the extent of it. We could say, “Please, thank you. Where is this? Where is that?” And that's about it.

Lawrence Ze: Well, but still, that's very interesting. What brought you exactly, it was like a family trip, or?

Luke Hughes: Yeah. So we, actually, we went for the World Cup in 2018 because my family, we're a big soccer family, and we love the international aspect of soccer, of going to different countries to see games and collecting jerseys and all that. But, no, Russian was...Russian was pretty tough to learn. And I've not tried since, but I might pick it up again. You've inspired me.

Lawrence Ze: Yeah, okay, great, great. We will be study mates, because, like, for the record, honestly, my Russian is so rusty. You know, I can be conversational, like in daily topics, but when it comes to more difficult things, it's impossible for me.

Luke Hughes: That's okay. Annika, do you want to kick us off with the first question?

Aanika Veedon: Yeah, absolutely. So bringing us a little bit back to the dialogue and how we all got to spend the week together in China and do the virtual dialogues before we were sort of wondering, what made you decide to join the student dialogue? Was there a specific, you know, reason that you wanted to join or something that you wanted to get out of it?

Lawrence Ze: Yeah, I think several reasons. For one, Georgetown is one of the best, like IR schools in America. Like as a person who's interested in international relations, there's no reason that you don't want to talk to people, talk with people over there. That's for one.

And second is, I love the feeling like of having in-person communication with my American peers or international peers. You know, I highly appreciate, like, the arrangements from Georgetown and Tsinghua because that was an amazing experience, and talking with my peers, like in-person, and which makes, you know, like setting the tone and setting the foundation for, like, these online things, because if, like, imagine, if we start just online and it's not good for moving a lot of things forward. I guess that's my most important two reasons.

Aanika Veedon: Thank you. Yep, it's interesting how I mean, I feel like Luke and I've talked about this too, but we share so many of the similar reasons, and there's nothing like being in-person. And I feel like it really opened up our, like, talks and our dialogue in a way that if we had stayed virtual the entire time, we wouldn't have gotten to know each other as well and be open about all these issues.

Lawrence Ze: Yeah, and afterwards, when I reflect on it, reflect on it, like you guys are so nice because, like people from my group, they brought me some snacks, especially the candy they brought, I still have them. I didn't, you know, eat them all up, but you know, it's super good. And I still remember, Luke shared a lot of like, Chicago stickers with us. Yeah, it's very good looking. So good to, you know, share things with people and, and, you know, when they shared snacks with me and I hopped onto our souvenir store, you know, just rushing to buy things, you know, to give something back, to be reciprocal, but, yeah, it's super fun to meet people in person, a nice person, especially.

Luke Hughes: There you go. You have a great memory. I remember I was at the airport in Chicago, boarding my flight for Beijing, and I looked around. I wanted to get something that represented the U.S. You know, a lot of students from the U.S. brought snacks from this grocery store called Trader Joe's. Trader Joe's is a signature store in the United States. They have great snacks, great foods. And I went to a store at the airport, and I saw these Chicago stickers, and they had Chicago skyscrapers. They had The Bean, which is one of the landmarks in Chicago, on it. And I figured that's the best way to represent my city, my people, and so I'm glad that you still have those stickers, because I kind of just pass them out, and people love them. That's awesome.

Lawrence Ze: Of course, I got a good one. I think I got the bridge. Yes, super good.

Luke Hughes: Yeah, yeah. Lawrence, what were some of your most memorable moments throughout the student dialogue? You know, we were there for a few days, and we were curious: what do you remember most?

Lawrence Ze: I have a kind of like a weird answer. It’s when we said goodbye, because I think after all the formal arrangements at Tsinghua, I think you guys would go to the Forbidden City, and as the first beginning, I was like, okay, it's a very sunny day. I didn't want to go. But later, I was like, you know, I want to stick with these people longer. But, and then you guys are like, and the people from my group are trying to find out whether they can get me a proper ticket. But at the end, we didn't make it. And then, you know, and then I felt like all—both sides, we felt like it was such a pity that we cannot stick with each other longer.

I think that's the most memorable moment for me, because that exemplifies, you know, even it's a short term, but when it's in-person, when it's a very intelligent communication, and, you know, fun people, you know, just chilling with each other, you know, it, it can—people can connect so easily. And, you know, we just can't help wanting to get more communication with each other. That's my most memorable moment from the trip.

Aanika Veedon: Yeah, I don't think that's weird at all. I feel like it speaks to the trip itself and the fact that we all got to know each other in that way in just a few days. You know, I think going in, I would have never expected that and to feel sad to leave the trip, which is something that you experienced, too. So, yeah. I really appreciate that story, yeah.

Lawrence Ze: Yeah, but honestly, speaking of the dialogue, I think they had such a good like arrangement, like we have group projects, and I was amazed, like, by each group's like, work, you know, within such a short time, you know, and you guys have all this and that, like, arrangements that Georgetown made for you. And you know, you guys are also suffering from jetlag and all that kind of things, you know. I was like, “How is that possible?” when you think back. But yeah, that's Georgetown people and Tsinghua people, you know. Yeah, we pull, we pull things up.

Luke Hughes: That's right. And you're so right. Annika and Lawrence, like you both mentioned earlier, we just, we had so much in common that when we—I was actually, I was talking to somebody who's applying for the dialogue right now. Lawrence, so there's another round of students that will come to China. I believe they're going to Shanghai in the spring, and then in May, there's more students from Georgetown coming to Beijing. And I had a friend who's interested in the dialogue, and she asked me, you know, “What was the experience like?” And I told her that although we had, we were there for so little and although we were so jet-lagged, we were never really exhausted or tired until the very end of the day.

I feel like for a lot of us, Annika, it didn't really hit us that we were so jet lagged, that we were so tired until the very end of the day, because we were so filled with so many good activities throughout the day that just kept us energized, kept us going. And I remember talking with students just about all these different topics. You know, where they're from, what they're studying, the intersection of their studies, you know, however, so similar to them, and that just kept us going throughout each day, is that in-person dialogue was so important. And I think a part of it, I thought to myself, you know, we are only there for, it was two or three days, so we had to make the most of our time. But I never felt like I had to, you know, stay awake and keep myself going because I was so energized just being with you all.

Lawrence Ze: Well, yeah, at least we can learn a lesson that, because I learned this, I heard from this, from another, like a senior person, because he traveled a lot around the world, and I asked him how does he keep himself energized when you know he's jumping over the corners in the world. He said, you know, “You just engage in interesting work and exciting activities. And you wouldn't even think about it.” And after the day, you would just hop on the bed. You know, have a very good sleep. Yeah.

Luke Hughes: That's right. That’s right.

Aanika Veedon: I know Lawrence, you mentioned the groups that we were working on in the dialogue. Do you mind sharing a little bit about what group that you were a part of and what issues you discussed as a group, and kind of what conclusions that you guys were able to come to?

Lawrence Ze: Yeah, generally, my group was about economic development from the U.S. and China side. So we shared some numbers to showcase that—how important trade-wise and economic-wise the U.S. and China are important to each other. But at the same time, we were also, like, having that discussion in the context of a tariff war. That was sort of, that was sort of going on in China and the U.S. at that time. And we, our agreement is that, you know, or my personal perspective, and that is, it's a supernatural thing, in a way. It didn't happen like the way we would expect. But, you know, it's two great powers, and they are equally powerful. Both sides are working very hard. So of course, there would be some conflicts. That was always my weird, like, opinion about this, but we definitely want the international system to work more in a more organic way.

So we shared opinions on how we perceive each other's trade policy, and had some, like, proposals for future work. For example, like we mentioned we should just echo the trend of regional like cooperation, because that's a trend. You know, globalization, all connected might not be the best option globally, but, you know, we can still focus on regionally cooperation and cross-region cooperation. So that was, that was something like we discussed at that time. And that's pretty much all because, you know, that was some, you know, the discussion was a bit while ago, so I didn't, cannot remember, like, everything very, very accurately, like, in detail.

Luke Hughes: Yeah, I'm thinking to myself, I think—so we had the artificial intelligence group, climate change, economic development, global governance, peace and security. I think maybe it was just those five. Lawrence - do you think there were any other...Do you think there were any topics that we left out, that we didn't discuss? Maybe, I mean, I personally think that all those topics are great areas for collaboration between the U.S. and China. I think we identified a lot of places for regional cooperation and working together. But do you think there were any topics that you would have liked to see discussed, that something that could have been conversed in more detail?

Lawrence Ze: I might have two inputs. For one, I think bio [biology] is left out, yeah, because, like pharmaceuticals in the United States, they make, they are very profitable. That's something that we all know. So R&D in bio, these companies, they really invest a lot into it, but with the advancement of like R&D and, you know, and the advancement of technology such as AI.

You know, China is, China is like demonstrating its capabilities and inventing, or, like, just making drugs, like medicines better, but at the same time, like, due to our, or like, because of our medical system, like, it's a very expensive medicine is not very sellable in China. So, a lot of U.S. companies would outsource their R&D, or start an international organization which allows them to have labs internationally. One of their options would be China. So they would do their R&D in China, because Chinese people can deliver the technology, and then they would kind of transfer the technology to the U.S. to sell the medicine at a higher price. So I think bio is something that business world is really focusing on, but it didn't quite be mentioned like in our discussion, as for one.

And second is just, I would love it if, like each group would share, you know, some, you know, would share some, like, interesting moments and the funny stories between U.S. and China, you know, because all the things, they're very formal and very serious, but at the same time, when we look back and when we, like, look at the history, you would, I personally would ask myself, “Where are the like, interesting, like, moments go, and where's the humor?” You know, because, like, people in China and in the U.S., we all have our ways, like, joking rounds, you know, sarcasm or whatever, or, like, just music, culture, all that kind of things.

I would love it, you know, if there were some culture part, you know, just like we sing together, or whatever, you know, that's not a discussion part. But like, if we can sing something together, maybe that version—that sound would be having like, English and Chinese version together, I think that would be some fun to play with. And I know at least my American peers in my group, they're very talented. They play all kinds of musical instruments, you know, and, and, yeah, that's something that's worth consideration next time, if we, yeah, still have the chance, right?

Aanika Veedon: I really like that. And it's just like, we need more fun, you know? Not everything needs to be so pessimistic.

Lawrence Ze: Oh, yeah. Touché.

Luke Hughes: Going back to your answer about more discussion around biotechnology. I took a class a year ago now. So it was the fall of 2024, the first semester of my second year, and it was titled Science Technology in the Global Arena. And we heard from a professor who said that, in times of intense geopolitics, you know whether there's whether it's in the U.S. and China or other countries, when there's tensions in the world, when it comes to science diplomacy, there's generally two topics that scientists still work together on, that they still share data, that they still conduct studies, and that tends to be in the biofield and also in space exploration.

So I think it would be interesting if we talked about space as well, because obviously the U.S. and China are both leading in that field when it comes to both exploring space, exploring Mars, returning to the moon, topics such as that. I think maybe we didn't discuss that because it wasn't as pertinent. Because maybe many of us who were in China who don't study space... we don't study space exploration, and then more of us do study technology, climate change, global governance, those topics, but I do agree with you. I think it would be interesting to look at, to talk more about science diplomacy and talk about biotechnology and other ways that scientists and other experts still work together in intense times. But I really appreciate your answer.

Lawrence Ze: No, sure, I don't know…people are, people should be interested in space. We don't know, you know, because we didn't ask around. Maybe something is, you know, maybe, maybe someone is enthusiastic about, like, all this, like, spatial thing. We never know, yeah, until we do it, right?

Aanika Veedon: Yeah, I mean, we had someone on the podcast who mentioned that after our presentation on AI and technology and finding areas of cooperation between the U.S. and China, that they wanted to specialize their major in AI and tech, which was awesome. And so, sort of like what you said, it's so interesting how delving into these topics can just create, like, so much new discussion that wasn't happening before. So those were some really good suggestions, and we'll definitely pass them along, too.

Lawrence Ze: Sure. That's great.

Aanika Veedon: Okay, so that brings us to our final question, which is: Thinking about how Georgetown and Tsinghua, which have really been able to develop this sort of great partnership, and doing these exchanges and dialogues, how do you think that they can continue this moving forward? And just, are there any other ways that they might be able to continue this into the future?

Lawrence Ze: Yeah, my instant like answer is just like, let's arrange—I know it's, it would be super expensive, but like—let's arrange more in-person experiences. But you know, universities would take care of the fee. That’s for one.

And second is just, I highly appreciate that you guys are recording podcasts, because first of all, it's such a great experience that I had with you guys during the event. But you know, I've had this kind of like experiences before, but afterwards there is no like further steps following it. So I really appreciate you guys and Georgetown are, like, working so hard, you know, to make these kind of things happen. So, like recording podcasts, it's super interesting. But, but one thing that I mentioned during when I was, you know, talking with my groupmates when we were together. I mentioned maybe we should conduct some research together, you know, and it would be supervised jointly by professors at Tsinghua and Georgetown.

And you know, it's because, Luke mentioned similarities between us, between both sides, students from both sides. I think another similarity is that it's kind of like, like, I didn't want to say it that way, but, you know, sometimes Professor Da [Wei] and other professors are saying to us, like, “You know, you guys are happening to be the future leaders in China and the States. That's why you guys should talk with each other, because, you know, you never know what this person would become in the future.”

Like, if we can know each other very early, when we are just students, if it's just like, you know, we have fun together. I don't mind, but like, what if we do something more intellectual? What if we do something more beneficial to our work and life? I think that would be research. So for sure, if we work together, because that's like working experiences. That's how you get familiar deeply with another person, and of course, very imaginable and foreseeable that there will be some disagreements and some details we will work hard on.

Because sometimes people come from drastically different backgrounds and so that. But that's also the opportunity and the window for, you know, different perspectives, different insights, and, you know, really push something kind of hard. And that's also another function as a legitimate reason for both sides to talk with each other. Because, you know, we, I believe we all live a very hectic life. So, you know, life-work balance probably is not a thing for us.

But you know, if there is a research, is that with the function as a legitimate reason to talk with each other instead of like, you know, let's just, you know, go on a Zoom meeting and talking about whatever, that would create an environment where people can interact with each other in a more deeper way, in a deeper way. Yeah.

Luke Hughes: We only have a few minutes left. Lawrence, do you have any final closing comments? We thank you so much for joining our podcast today. We really appreciate it.

Lawrence Ze: No, thank you guys for your work. And I love recording podcasts personally. We can record in the future with each other about anything. I don't know. It would be more fun. The recording topics would be more fun, you know, it could be music. It could be culture. It could be, you know, you guys may be learning other foreign languages or any other kind of things. So, very happy to talk with you, too.

Aanika Veedon: Well, thank you so much, Lawrence. It was so awesome to see you and talk with you again, and we really appreciate all of your insights.

Luke Hughes: Thank you, thank you.

Lawrence Ze: Thank you, too. And I am looking forward to our outcome. I look forward to how it will really get published and made public.

Luke Hughes: That’s right.

Aanika Veedon: Awesome, okay, thank you.

Luke Hughes: Thanks so much for listening in.

Aanika Veedon: We will see you next time.