美中全球议题对话项目

这次采访是用英语进行的。

Aanika Veedon: From wherever you're listening in, welcome. My name is Aanika Veedon, and I'm a senior in Georgetown University's Walsh School of Foreign Service (SFS) studying international politics.

Luke Hughes: And my name is Luke Hughes, I'm a junior in the SFS studying science, technology and international affairs.

Aanika Veedon: The two of us are the co-hosts of the Georgetown U.S.-China Student Dialogue Podcast, a student-run podcast through the Georgetown Initiative for U.S.-China Dialogue on Global Issues.

Luke Hughes: After visiting Beijing and Hong Kong this past May with the rest of the spring 2025 cohort, Aanika and I felt compelled to continue the trans-Pacific dialogue we had the privilege of engaging in. We hope this podcast further demonstrates the importance of student voices in U.S.-China relations. We hope you enjoy.

Aanika Veedon: So, with that, let’s start off with a question to you. I’m wondering if you can give us a quick introduction, maybe tell us a little bit about what you're studying, what your name is, and a little bit of background about you.

Zhang Gongle: Okay, okay, hi, thank you, everyone. My name is Zhang Gongle, and I'm currently senior student at Tsinghua University. I'm an English major at the Department of Foreign Languages and Literatures, and maybe in the future, I will transfer into the international relations (IR) studies for my graduate degrees. Well, thank you for hosting this great event, and I'm really excited to join this. And for this podcast, I just want that we have a very real, open-minded and in-depth conversation about the China-U.S. relations and our program. So thank you very much.

Aanika Veedon: Wonderful, thank you so much for the introduction.

Luke Hughes: Thank you. Thank you. That's a great segway into our first question, which is, what were your main takeaways from both the virtual meetings that we had and also the in-person dialogues? Did you prefer one over the other? How did you experience them differently? What did you think?

Zhang Gongle: Yeah, the two parts - they’re indeed very different. Like for our initial stage, we just have our virtual conference online because, you know, we are in different virtual spaces. So for this part, I think that both these universities have made great efforts to host this kind of conference, and several professors invited to give lectures for us.

And for me, I think it's very important, because every session of this conference, I just had to browse the internet and try to find more material that may be useful in this area, like conversations. So maybe it just helped me to broaden my horizon and improve my capabilities for browsing the like lectures and the materials. So I think that's very important.

And also in the sessions, we also have, like, discussions after the lectures given by the professors. And I always find that we just know more about our peers from the American universities. Like, I remember when we talk about how China thinks about climate issues, and I know that maybe the U.S. side has a very different point of view about this kind of problems.

But I think it is only through this kind of online discussions that I can more totally understand how the outside was thinking and how what they are going to do. So I think it's really important, and for face to face in-person discussion, I think maybe it's more important because, you know, it's much more efficient, and we have almost one day for this kind of discussions, especially for our teamwork. It made me just realize that maybe sometimes the process of discussion is much more important than its outcomes or consensus.

Actually, for me, I was in the … group, and we do not make consensus in the end, but in this process, I just also got a deeper understanding of how our American fellows were thinking about some global issues and our bilateral relations. So overall, I think maybe I prefer face-to-face discussions, and maybe my major takeaways are about the process. It is very important for us to have such a kind of discussions and exchanges in the future. Maybe in the short term, it may not bring out some outcomes, but in the long run, it's the best way for our mutual understanding. Thank you.

Luke Hughes: Of course. So it sounds like you may do this as well before our virtual dialogues, whether it is about climate change, artificial intelligence or a similar topic, I tried to do my own research about U.S. policy towards climate change, the Chinese government's policy towards climate change. Did you do a lot of research before as well, or did you already know a lot of information about China or the U.S.’ approach to a topic like climate change?

Zhang Gongle: Yeah. Honestly speaking, I do not know much about this kind of issues, because, you know, first it may not be the priority issues between these two nations. And also, in recent years, China and both the U.S. maybe have more tense, like, topics between these two nations. So, yeah, it ought to have a more, much more kind of better engagement into this kind of discussions about climate issues. I do have some like, I do like, browse the internet and try to find more materials and the literature and our papers about this.

So this process, I just find that maybe I just have more deeper understanding of, you know, your side and its policies and as well as the Chinese side. So like, maybe the U.S. has an earlier start of this kind of climate agreements, but maybe in recent years, China has put much more effort into governing the kind of problems, both domestically and nationally. So that's my own takeaways.

Aanika Veedon: I think that's a great point about the sort of variety of things that we spoke about. For me, I thought it was really interesting to have a different discussion every other week that might have been unrelated to what I'm studying and what I knew about, like what Luke said. I think it gave us all an opportunity to reflect on other issues in the relationship and some that I had never really considered as things that would be in the spotlight, like climate change. So thank you so much for that.

And I think you touched on this a little bit, but the time in which we were having our virtual dialogues and meeting in person was definitely a tense moment of diplomatic relations between the U.S. and China, especially with the tariffs that were happening at the moment. So what do you think is the importance of emphasizing more cooperation in the U.S.- China relations, rather than competition? And how did that sort of play out given the time that we were doing these dialogues in?

Zhang Gongle: Well, I think you know, the importance of like bilateral cooperation - both benefits these two nations, but also the whole world, like for these two countries, you know, actualizing these two nations cannot live without each other, like that China maybe has more industries capabilities, which does produce much more goods for the U.S. consumers and as well as other countries’ peoples. So considering this, I think the U.S. is a very important market for the Chinese side, and also maybe the United States have much more advantages in like high tech products and some, maybe some kind of financing market and something like this. So we consider this, I think the United States also needs to partner with China.

So in total, I think the cooperation between the two nations can both benefit these two countries. So that's one side. And also if we consider the whole world, I think nowadays, non-traditional security issues having a very cold topic of our international world, like climate change, as we said before, and terrorism, maybe some refugee problems and the pandemics. So this kind of topic or problems should be stressed by humanity, the whole human societies.

So as the two major powers in the international securities, I think these two countries both have the capability, the ability and also the responsibility to do so. So, they should have more cooperation on, to like resolve or kind of eliminate this kind of international issues and problems, which just benefits all the world. So let me think about these two perspectives. I think it's much more important for these two countries to have more further cooperation, instead of competition.

Luke Hughes: For sure, I really like how you mentioned climate change and the pandemic in particular, because through all of our interviews for this podcast with other students from Tsinghua University, with your with your fellow classmates, and with people that we met in person in Beijing, there was a theme of science diplomacy, how we talked about how today, many countries around the world are facing the same problems that you said. They're facing natural disasters, they're facing biotechnology crises, they're facing the same issues that if countries continue to work together, if scientists continue to share information, we can find common solutions.

So I really like how you emphasize that since China and the U.S. are facing the exact same issues, it would make more sense to cooperate when it comes to sharing data, when it comes to sharing information about how we can address those issues. I think that's very important to know.

Zhang Gongle: Thank you.

Luke Hughes: Moving on to our next question. So in our dialogues, we talked about artificial intelligence, we talked about climate change, we talked about a variety of subjects. Were there any topics that we did not talk about that you wish we did? Was there anything you think we left out?

Zhang Gongle: Yeah, I think that we just should have put more effort in promoting, like, the cultural exchange. So which is, this is a topic that we have not covered in our exchange program, but I think it's very important, maybe sometimes it's just the most important thing that these two nations should promote in the future.

Like as a student from Tsinghua University, I myself have, like, participated in several overseas program and exchange programs in the past several years, and in the winter vacation, I just go to the - I just went to the United States for two weeks exchange programs in which we just met, the Georgetown University IR department, Howard University, the School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS) of John Hopkins, and some international organizations.

So from my point of view, I think maybe this kind of in-person cultural exchange, especially those kind of normal people's cultural exchange, is very important, like without this kind of difference of ideologies or kind of our official destinies, we just can freely talk about our shared issues and our concerns about the current international societies.

So that's very important. And I think maybe the cultural exchange could also help to make those people closer, like in the embassies of China, at that time, they just held the conference to have a conference about the U.S.-China relations. And at the same time, they had this film festival. So at the time, many diplomats from the United States have engaged in conversations with maybe some artists from China. So I think this kind of process or program is very important for mutual understanding.

Aanika Veedon: That's, yeah, that's awesome that you had the opportunity to go to the U.S. and visit schools like Georgetown and SAIS. I mean, do you mind telling us a little bit more about what your impressions were from that experience. It sounds like, I mean, I was going to ask, actually, in my next question, how you see improving U.S.-China relations in your personal and professional life? But it looks like you're already, you're already off to the races and doing that. So if you wouldn't mind telling us a little bit more about those experiences.

Zhang Gongle: Yeah, it's a very interesting experience for me, because it actually is my first time to go to the United States, and it turned out that it was much more different than I had expected in the past. So maybe when I was young, or when I was, I had not been to the United States. I just think that maybe the United States, the people, maybe they have much more different opinions towards maybe everything compared with our Chinese people.

But still, this kind of exchanges and conversation, I found maybe they have some differences in some issues or some issues, but actually we have greater and broader common ground over many topics of our urgent topics in the international world, and independent of the bilateral relations. Like the economies and also the health and hygiene problems among the two countries, like the drugs and something like that.

We both want to find solutions to address these problems, and we are indeed trying to address some problems through our own efforts. So, my biggest takeaway from all this kind of experience is that it's very easy for us to try to figure out our common wrong common ground, as long as we want to have more discussions.

Luke Hughes: So it sounds like you visited…you were in Washington, D.C. And did you go to any other cities in the United States, or was it just Washington?

Zhang Gongle: Our first destination was Washington, and then we went to New York by train, and our destination was Boston because there are many great universities there. So in Boston, we just met with many universities, and in New York, we just had headed to some international organizations and some non-profit organizations about the China-U.S. relations, as well as some universities. So maybe in Washington our major task is basically, to some official organizations, and in New York was to international organizations.

And we finally went to Boston for universities. So it was a very for a very tight travels, because the schedule is very tight, yeah, but

Luke Hughes:  Boston, New York and Washington - they're three very different cities, so that's great that you were able to see all that in one trip.

Aanika Veedon: Yeah, it sounds a lot like what we did when we went to both Beijing and Hong Kong and met with you guys and Hong Kong University (HKU) students, but maybe even busier so yeah.

Luke Hughes: And so Aanika was going to ask this question, but like she just said, how do you hope to work in the field of United States-China relations as your career goes on. We've spoken with a few of your classmates who have said that they would love to pursue academics, and they want to obtain graduate degrees in international relations and work for the Chinese government and work in the foreign ministry in U.S.-China relations.

I personally am interested in a role in the private sector, or where I can work in a field such as climate change, artificial intelligence, something with emerging technology involving U.S.-China relations. How do you see yourself in this field going forward?

Zhang Gongle: Yeah, actually, I'm applying for some American universities and of the IR issues, of the IR topics. So maybe in the future, I will maybe have the chance to go to the United States to pursue my graduate degrees of the IR - international relations - and my topic that I am interested in is developing countries.

So what I'm doing now is, you have researches on the development of these kind of countries, and I want to figure out how China, American, and other Western countries could work together to help or boost other countries development like the Belt and Road Initiatives and for the U.S. side, maybe the DFCs, development financing corporations, these efforts to help African countries on development.

I think it's just like what we have said, the common grounds. Actually, these kinds of initiatives and programs also have some common ground to work together in promoting these countries and modernizations. So what I'm doing now is to figure out, in what kind of circumstances could these two countries work together to better benefit other developing countries, especially in some countries on the whole level.

So that's what I'm doing now, and maybe in the future, I will just continue to study the international relations, and I will just stick on this topic in my future academic pursuits to try to find a kind of solutions for these two major power to help them other countries, for their economies and political stability. So that's what I'm doing now, and I want to do to continue it in the future. And for my career pursuits, actually, I have not decided yet, but maybe I want to go to the international organizations to like further my research in the future, and also help accumulate some experience in working.

So I think actually there are many kinds of ways to facilitate these bilateral relations, and what I'm dreaming to do is to just make contributions for this bilateral relations in academic research. So that's my own plans.

Aanika Veedon: That's awesome. Thank you so much. I'm really interested, too, in how you mentioned that you're studying English right now, and I'm wondering how that sort of influences your study of international relations and having such a like liberal arts and humanity lens - how does that sort of come into your study and what you want to pursue in the future?

Zhang Gongle: Oh, yes, it's a very long story. It's because when I was young, I just wanted to become a diplomat in the future. So I just went to a foreign language school for in my of my high schools, and of that, I just enrolled into Tsinghua University for English majors. But later on, I realized that in order to become a capable diplomat, is not only necessary for you to master language skills, but also have wealth of knowledges in the international relations so that you could make appropriate choice in solutions.

So this has invoked me to have more studies in the IR lessons, so I just picked up some classes about the international relations and gradually just fell in love with it. So I think to some extent the English major just helped me to better adapt to our international relations studies, because we have to read all the materials in English and exchange programs, like the Georgetown University programs, we better engage in it. So I think it just overall helped me to have better performance in the IR studies. And for my future pursuit, I just think that it just helped me to realize that I could combine these kinds of skills together and make better contributions to the bilateral relations or for the whole of humanity.

Aanika Veedon: Thank you so much, and I'm glad that you mentioned the dialogue, because we have been seeing a lot of flyers around campus, and the program is now looking for a call for applications for the next cohort of students. I'm not sure if at Tsinghua, they've started with a new set of applications yet, but we wanted to ask you if there's any piece of advice that you might have to the next round of either Georgetown or Tsinghua students who hope to participate in the program, and what can they do to get the most out of the dialogue and have such an amazing experience like the one that you know, the three of us got to share together?

Zhang Gongle: Yeah, I just think about it for a long time. I think that I can just give them two advices.

The first one is to be proactive, so don't be afraid to speak up in discussions in front of this crowd, even if you think that your ideas is not fully mature. I just believe that only through discussions, your voice can be heard and it can really make a difference. So don't be afraid to speak, to share your ideas in front of people. Even your smallest opinion can inspire others.

And I think the second advice is to listen - to not refute different views. Just try to first try to understand them. Why does someone just think and speak like that? Well, just understand this underlying logic. You can really find a difference between you and your partners, and maybe you think you will finally find that they are really not as big as it seemed. And you may even find a middle ground, like this, common ground for the solutions. And finally on to say the China-U.S. relations were indeed complex, but as youngsters, as young people, we do not need to bear the burden of grand expectations. I think what we just have to do is to stand sincere and open ourselves up and listen carefully and speak honestly.

So bit by bit, I think we can accumulate understanding and trust, and it can really make a difference and grow into a great force for improving our bilateral relations. So that's my advice.

Luke Hughes: Awesome, I completely agree. I was gonna say I think it's so important that students who are in the next dialogue know that their voices matter. They know. I remember there were many times right when I said something, and I was often corrected. I shared an incorrect fact, that I shared an incorrect perspective, and I learned that that wasn't right. So it's always important to talk just to say something.

Aanika Veedon: We can only just say thank you so much. This was a really amazing discussion, and we really appreciate all of your answers and all of your thoughtful insights. I loved the piece of advice that you left off on. I think it demonstrates so much optimism and really the power of what we all kind of shared in the past few months. So thank you so much, and thank you so much for coming to meet us today.

Zhang Gongle: Thank you. Thank you for your organization and effort. Thank you.

Luke Hughes: Thanks so much for listening in.

Aanika Veedon: We’ll see you next time.

Episode recording: 15 October 2025 (DC time)