Initiative for U.S.-China Dialogue on Global Issues

Aanika Veedon: From wherever you're listening in, welcome. My name is Annika Veedon, and I'm a senior in Georgetown University's Walsh School of Foreign Service (SFS) studying international politics.

Luke Hughes: And my name is Luke Hughes, I'm a junior in the SFS studying science, technology and international affairs.

Aanika Veedon: The two of us are the co-hosts of the Georgetown U.S.-China Student Dialogue Podcast, a student-run podcast through the Georgetown Initiative for U.S.-China Dialogue on Global Issues.

Luke Hughes: After visiting Beijing and Hong Kong this past May with the rest of the spring 2025 cohort, Annika and I felt compelled to continue the trans-Pacific dialogue we had the privilege of engaging in. We hope this podcast further demonstrates the importance of student voices in U.S.-China relations. We hope you enjoy.

Luke Hughes: So we'll start just by providing some context to our listeners, to our watchers as well. So Annika and I were part of the spring 2025 version of the U.S.-China Student Dialogue on Global Issues between Georgetown University and Tsinghua University in Washington, DC, and in Beijing.

And throughout March and April, we had four Zoom dialogues in which we engaged in both big-group discussions and small-group discussions about climate change, artificial intelligence, global governance—a whole array of topics. And we concluded the spring cohort by actually going to Beijing and also Hong Kong to meet with you all in person, you know, so you can take us around campus, so we can give presentations on these topics, talk about cooperation and competition when it comes to these areas as well.

Aanika Veedon: Yeah, and I think one of our largest takeaways from that trip was a sense of wanting to do more and continue the amazing connection that we started between both of our universities. And so I think this podcast represents to us an amazing opportunity to reconnect with a lot of students at Tsinghua and really keep that meaningful connection, going despite being countries apart and just seeing how we can continue that into the future.

Luke Hughes: Although, Annika, I love how you said reconnect, because Jenny and I have stayed - we've stayed connected. We've still, we still talk to keep that connection.

Aanika Veedon: Continue the connection.

Luke Hughes: There we go, there we go. All right, so our first question for you, Jenny is, why did you choose to get involved with this student dialogue?

Jenny Avom: So first when I saw about this, because usually when there's a bunch of events happening on campus, it's always on WeChat that we have, and then there's like mini-programs. So when I first saw about this, it was basically a China-U.S. dialogue about Tsinghua. And when I read the description, it was, we're going to have weekly talks on things like…technology, AI [Artificial Intelligence], security, I was very interested. I was intrigued and obviously interested because I'm very passionate about geopolitics. And then when it came to when it was basically saying that we would basically interact with students from the U.S., from Georgetown University, I was like, okay, sign me up.

So I signed up for it, and going into this, I was like, my first thought was like, this is definitely going to be an eye-opener, because obviously China and the U.S.—people know the relations they have and the big roles they play in the world. So hearing the perspectives from you guys, I was really intrigued. So that my first thought was, like, I cannot miss this - I cannot miss this opportunity.

Aanika Veedon: Yeah, I'm so glad that you said that, because one of the things that we wanted to ask you, too is like, if there was anything that ended up surprising you about your interactions with the Georgetown students? And it's sort of that, like, eye-opening thought that you had in the beginning. Did that change at all? And like, how were you surprised throughout?

Jenny Avom: 100%, 100%. I definitely think it was more eye opening than ever, because I learned so much from you guys, from all the talks that we had and all the presentations that we did. And also one thing that might have surprised me a little coming into this, but it's a good surprise: basically, I was very happy and a little bit surprised to see that you guys were more, like curious than confrontational, which was really nice, because all that you guys wanted was to learn more about what's going on here, how is it with our experiences. And every time you guys would engage in conversations, it was always you guys asking more and more questions about how it's here, like how our thoughts are on China and the U.S. and everything. It was really nice to see it heartwarming as well, you know.

Luke Hughes: I love that you say that, because I think curiosity comes from at least like two things. I think in our cohort, Annika, there were—so there were 15 students, Jenny, who were from Georgetown, who went… 13—12 or 13—are majoring or minoring in Chinese at Georgetown. And one of them actually lived, Daniel, lived in Taiwan for four years.

You know, a majority of the cohort had some experience, you know, studying Chinese, studying Chinese politics, Chinese history, or living in China, or near China itself. So I think it's interesting that a lot of people went with that curiosity, not that confrontation standpoint, because they understand the culture a little bit. They want to learn more about it.

You know, Meredith is coming back to Beijing in the fall to study there. You know, they're going to return to the country. They want to continue to engage with it. And I think the other aspect for people like Annika and I, who don't know much Mandarin, don't know much about Chinese history…

Aanika Veedon: Or any, really.

Luke Hughes: …or now we've only learned a little bit about Mandarin and we know a little bit about Chinese history.

Georgetown, I think really encourages their students, because there's a lot of international students at Georgetown, and we're constantly surrounded by different cultures, people from different countries, different passports, their parents have different passports than their own kids, things like that. We're constantly encouraged to, you know, approach people with different backgrounds from us, people with different backgrounds from us without confrontation and with a “I want to understand them.” And I think Georgetown does a very good job with that. And I noticed that Tsinghua does as well, when talking with you and other students. They wanted to know what our dining halls were like. You know, it wasn't all about, you know, politics and, you know, getting into heated conversations. It was like, “Do you have a dessert bar at your dining hall?”. You know, “What are your dorms like”? I love those conversations.

Aanika Veedon: I will totally agree. Like, yeah, absolutely agree. And I think it also is like on both sides. And I think something that really surprised Luke and I in the whole cohort too is that there's a different perception of the way that you view the government versus its people. And I think we really felt that disconnect on both sides, and so it was really cool to challenge those perceptions. And I mean, it all came through this interaction, because, you know, otherwise, I would have, I mean, I would have never really challenged those perceptions, and maybe I would have been a little bit more closed-minded than I left the trip with.

Jenny Avom: No, 100%.

Aanika Veedon: Jenny, I'm curious, had you heard of Georgetown before the trip? Because I don't think I've heard…I don't think I'd heard of Tsinghua. Maybe I heard it once.

Jenny Avom: Not really, no, I don't think so. In my senior year of high school, I was considering going to study in DC, but I'd never really looked into, like, many universities, to be honest.

Aanika Veedon: Well, now I go around and I tell people, “Hey, we went to the best university in all of Asia.” And everyone we met there was actually brilliant. I mean, you guys were like, it was, it was amazing. And I think it also shows a difference too, about the way that the American education system is framed.

I think that oftentimes, like, U.S. history is taught from very American-centric and very Eurocentric perspectives. And it was so fascinating to meet so many Tsinghua students who had such a strong understanding of U.S. politics and U.S. government and the whole political system that maybe we didn't have as strong an understanding of the other side.

Luke Hughes: Yeah, that was awesome. Our next question for you, so what do you think is the role of student dialogues in broader cooperation between the United States and China, whether it's on a university level—I even know, so my high school, they have sent students to China before; I'm not sure if it's to engage with other students in China, but just a cultural trip. What do you think? Why are these important, things like that, you know? Why should they continue?

Jenny Avom: I think things like student dialogue play like a crucial role, especially in fostering broader cooperation between the U.S. and China, like building mutual understanding, trust, and long-term, long-term people-to-people ties. I think that's really important, especially in the world that we're basically living in now.

And I think these exchanges allow future leaders, scholars, professionals—us—to engage in discussions and develop like a nuanced appreciation of each other's cultures and values and different perspectives. And I think that's really important.

Aanika Veedon: Yeah, I'm kind of wondering what you're sort of making of the way that the U.S. is sort of approaching international students and Chinese students in general now, too. And really, I guess limiting a lot of the exchanges that used to take place. Like, what’s sort of I guess the attitude on behalf of Tsinghua students, and just the way that you kind of view that decision, like, how does that make you feel?

Jenny Avom: I don't think especially in the world that we're living in, especially as it's becoming more interconnected, I don't think that's a smart decision, because communication is key in anything—in policies and decision-making in AI and tech. I think communication is key and having our students interact with each other, hold conversations, build people-to-people ties. I think that's the one thing that's going to basically help both sides and not just one side. So I would definitely encourage more exchange students going to the U.S., and more exchange students coming to China as well.

Aanika Veedon: We're right there with you, too.

Luke Hughes: Because I was thinking a bit about why, you know, why it's so important on the student level? Yeah, you know, exchange is great between any two people in the U.S. and China, but why is it so important at the student level? And I think it's just because, you know, I don't know how to phrase this in a better way, but I think just because we have no external—as students—there's no other ulterior motives, I guess you could say? You know, we're there not for business reasons, not for, you know, you know, maintaining peace between the two countries—that it's lower stakes for students.

You know, there's a lot of progress that we made, I believe, while we were in China and through the Zoom dialogues and through a podcast such as this. But at the end of the day, we're just there to learn, and we were there just to see what a dining hall is like in Beijing. I keep on going back to that, because I'm just always so—I think that moment in particular, that was the best. Being in the dining hall with you guys for an hour, an hour and a half. It just highlighted the trip for some reason, just because I really got to see what Chinese culture is like and what Chinese student culture is like.

And I think it's so important that on the student level it is maintained, you know, because I think when you get to the diplomatic level, that's great; when you get to the business level, that's great; but they're, they're maybe acting for financial purposes; they may be acting for diplomatic purposes. Whereas, if it's students, where they're just to say, hey—and this is what we did—this is what I know about climate change in my country. Jenny, this is what you know about climate change in your country. Where do we see eye to eye? Where do we see differently? And then we made a presentation on it, and then we continue, and then we leave with those thoughts still in our head, which I think is great.

Aanika Veedon: Yeah, I think you're so right. And honestly, I think the approach of that part of the presentation is so important, because it was going with an understanding that, like, we could have completely different opinions about this, completely different understandings of the subject. We could have been taught two entirely different systems, and it's going in with a genuinely mutual understanding and sort of almost like checking ourselves at the door.

And I think that that's sort of what really made me take away so much was that everyone had an open mind and open attitude. It was, I just feel like, across the board, so much more open-minded than I could have ever expected. I don't know if you felt the same way, Jenny, or what your thoughts are.

Jenny Avom: No, 100%, I completely agree. Last presentation that we had about climate change, it was, it was really nice, because, in a way, we got to basically share what our thoughts were on climate, on the climate change, in our both countries, and also learn more, like, through research and also through conversation. I loved it. I think it was, it was really insightful.

Luke Hughes: Well, it was the best group, because I wonder which two out of three of us were in it. Obviously, just kidding, just kidding.

Jenny Avom: I agree with that, no bias obviously.

Aanika Veedon: I guess majority rules, fair enough.

Luke Hughes: Two versus one. There we go. I was gonna ask, do you think you learned, you learned the most from the climate change discussions, or what, what topic in particular?

Because we had the working group—so we had business and trade, climate change, artificial intelligence, global governance, and peace and security. And I think out of all those presentations, I mean, I was preferential to climate change because I was in it, obviously, but I think we, I think we identified areas of cooperation. They could really challenge ourselves there. And I think I learned the most from what I learned from Jenny and other people in our group. Would you say the same thing? And what? What group you know stood out to you the most?

Jenny Avom:  I think for me, the one that I really liked the most was probably AI in tech, I think.

Aanika Veedon: Shout out.

Jenny Avom: I'm sorry, but I loved our group. Our group was really good, but you guys had a lot more to say, and it was more relevant to maybe the major that I want to change to, because I'm planning to major in economics, but now I'm thinking to change more to digital economics, and that may or may not have been influenced by their presentation. So I think I learned a lot more from that. And it was really, it was really good.

Aanika Veedon: I'll just say too, I was shocked by that presentation as well, and I actually picked it because I didn't have that much of an understanding of AI really, like, I just like, picked that because I wanted to. I thought I could learn the most from it, and what I realized with our solutions or recommendations that we gave is that all of them were based off of some degree of success so far. So with the, for example, like potential agreement on military weapons, it came from both the U.S. and China having some acknowledgement about wanting some sort of restrictions, whatever they might be, about lethal autonomous weapons. And so that was really cool, because it felt, like, genuinely achievable and maybe like making a connection that, that people wouldn't have thought of before. So I really appreciate that Jenny. I can definitely resonate.

Luke Hughes: Now I'm curious. What would… so as a digital economics major, like, what classes would you take? What would that look like?

Jenny Avom: I haven't looked into you yet, but I'm 100% sure there would definitely be an emphasis on AI and tech, obviously. So I'm really looking forward to that, because everyone talks about AI, but like, I think when it comes to it, we don't really know much about it, at least for me, speaking from personal experience and from personal knowledge. But I think that, yeah, majoring in it would definitely be good, because that's basically what is running the world now. AI is all everywhere, so I think it's really important to be very educated on it too.

Luke Hughes: Yeah, yeah. I know there's, there's one member of Congress in the U.S. House of Representatives, who has a master's degree, who has, who is like the one guy who really does know artificial intelligence—Congressman Obernolte from California—and I've just seen that he's a part of every working group, every task force, when it comes to AI, and he's just super, super busy.

So I think it would be great if you know a lot of the people that are talking about AI right now—I do wonder sometimes, like, I don't fully understand it. And a lot of it is, you know, technology. Like, I wonder if there are senators, members of Congress, who are, you know, even Chinese politicians who are 70-75 years old…do they really understand what AI is about?

And I feel kind of guilty saying that, because I don't really. But also I'm like, there's only one guy in Congress right now who can really talk about it, and who is kind of the chief expert on this matter. I think it does really go to show that, you know us students right now, you can change your major and boom, you could become an AI expert, like we have that power, which I think is great.

Jenny Avom: That's true, that's true, and especially that this major is also combining AI and tech with economics. I think it's really good.

Aanika Veedon: It's also so cool. It reminds me of how, like Georgetown, similarly, has really specialized majors, like a lot of people, international relations is just a concentration of a political science degree. But it seems really similar that at Tsinghua and Georgetown, you really just delve into it and really become a subject matter expert, which is so cool. You just don't get that anywhere else. That's also me being partial to Georgetown and thinking it's the best place ever. But you know, yeah, well.

I guess one question that we sort of wanted to end on to close it off, especially given the sort of tensions between the U.S. and China right now and the lack of focus on international students’ role in the U.S. education system, is how do you think that schools like Tsinghua, Georgetown can continue this dialogue? And how can we keep working together in the spirit of a trans-Pacific engagement and partnership?

Jenny Avom: I think definitely a way that would help foster this partnership between China and the U.S. would be strengthening dialogues like this, so already existing China-U.S. dialogues.

I love, I really love this program. And if I could, I'm not sure if you can attend it twice, but if I could, I would definitely again next year, and I would write, I've already talked to all my friends about this, that if you get a chance, you have to apply to this. It's really great. I think strengthening programs like this is important as well, and also one thing that I would love to see is like alumni networks—like strengthening the alumni that we have, both from Tsinghua and Georgetown, to basically mentor the students, and it just gives us a larger pool of professionals already in the industries that we want to work in.

Because during the dialogue, I realized that all of us, all of us wanted solutions, but we were all from different backgrounds. Some people were AI and tech, some people were security, some people were with health care. So having mentors who are already in the industries to help us, to mentor us, and to walk us through the different challenges that we would come across is, I think, that would be really, really helpful.

Luke Hughes: I love that. Yeah, I know. So the group that hosted Annika and I think they were trying to put together some sort of alumni program, you know, whether it's a return trip for people who have already been on the program or, like, a get together, I'm not really sure what that would look like, but I remember talking to the women from the group who were with us down the trip, Annika, in Beijing in Hong Kong, and they said how they would love to see that put together, because it's important to continue those relationships, maintain that dialogue.

And there's a lot of, you know, students in Beijing who I would love to interact—I would love to see you in-person again. You know, WeChat, Instagram, it's not enough. Like I would love to go back. And I feel like what we will engage in, like work at some point in the future, whether it's at the United Nations, whether it's in the private sector, U.S. government, whatever you name it. I just, I feel like that alumni network, something to maintain, you know, the connections between the graduates of this program, or whatever you want to call us, the people who have done it would be, it would be incredible.

Aanika Veedon: I completely agree. And one, one sort of memory that comes to mind for me that I was so touched by, is when we exchanged gifts on the last day together, and there was a student, I remember who gave us all these, like personalized letters with this, like, rotunda, that sort of it—I think it was similar to the UVA rotunda, the University of Virginia's logo—which is very similar to the one on Tsinghua’s campus. And he said that it was a representation of, sort of, you know, continuing growth between the U.S. and China and all of our connections. And I just thought that was a really, you know, beautiful and, like, wonderful note to end the trip on to. And, I mean, after just, like, knowing each other for a few days, and so, I mean, I still have that letter with me, and it was, like, very special.

Luke Hughes: Jenny, is that building an auditorium, or it was right by the sundial, the one you said, I think there's like, concerts there?

Jenny Avom: Yeah, there was a concert there. I've actually never walked in there. I've never been in there. I always hear about—there was this one time I was coming out of my international relations class. The building is right across the auditorium, and there was a huge line from there till past the sun dial. So, you know, that distance, all that.

Aanika Veedon: That’s like a football field.

Jenny Avom: Literally. It's crazy. And one of my friends and I, we were so curious, like, why are people lining up for this? And then we asked someone in the line, like, “Why is everyone here?” And then they were like, “There's this very famous Chinese singer, and he's performing inside, so we're all lining up to go see him.” We were like, “What?!” So, my friend and I, we were curious to see what this Chinese guy looks like.

So basically, when the whole thing was over, we came back an hour after (an hour or two) and then we stood outside, because outside the back gate, that's where he was going to come out from. So we just stood there and just waited for, I think we waited for, like, 40 minutes, a good 40 minutes. But it wasn't just us. There were a bunch of other people too who didn't get tickets to watch him, so they were just standing outside waiting for him to come out, and the second he stepped out, the crowd went wild. My friend and I were just there for the vibes. It was funny.

Aanika Veedon: No, it seems like it's worth the wait.

Jenny Avom: Yeah, honestly, it definitely was. It definitely was.

Luke Hughes: I think you told us that story. You told me that story while we were biking around after, because we were working on the presentation. And then we're like, we've been working for a few hours. It was almost lunch. We're like, let's go ride the bikes around. And I remember that we stopped, we stopped right by the auditorium. And it was like, kind of—it was hot that day, but I was like, it was funny, because I didn't even feel like that, like, it was fine outside—in the suit.

Jenny Avom: I was melting…and I was just looking at you, like, how are you not hot?

Luke Hughes: I was just, I was just so glad. I was so happy to be there. I was like, I don't have a care in the world. Like, I, I'm like, this is great.

Aanika Veedon: We took an extra, like, 15 minutes to walk back because we went in whatever direction had shade, and so it took us forever to get back for lunch because it was so hot outside.

Jenny Avom: That is so valid.

Luke Hughes: Too good. Well, Jenny, thank you so much for joining us. This was awesome. I loved it.

Jenny Avom: Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so much.

Luke Hughes: Any closing comments, closing thoughts, things you want to leave with?

Jenny Avom: Um, I just think that what you guys are doing right now is amazing. And I can't wait to watch the future episodes with the future guests, and I can't wait to see what their thoughts are as well. So thank you guys for hosting this and for having me as well.

Luke Hughes: Thanks so much for listening in.

Aanika Veedon: We’ll see you next time.

Episode recording: 16 July 2025 (DC time)